Alembic Guitars Club

Alembic products => Alembic Basses & Guitars => Topic started by: shingor64 on October 18, 2010, 08:56:44 AM

Title: One pick up location
Post by: shingor64 on October 18, 2010, 08:56:44 AM

Hi, every one
 
I'm ordering a new Alembic which adds the third PU Fatboy between two MXYs.
Then, I would use the center one primarily because I always love the tone generated from one PU.
 
I have a short scale bass with an AXY and checked the location of the pickup.
It was just 90% of the scale.
The distance between the nut and the pick up center is about 703mm, and the scale length is 781mm (30.75 inch), so I suppose that Alembic determined the only pick up at the 90% of the length.
 
I also like the Excel tone, but I cannot measure actual instruments.
Does anybody know how Alembic generally decides the only one pick up location?
How about medium scale basses, for example Distillate, where is the pickup put on?
Where is the sweetest spot?
 
Thanks
 
Shinichiro

Title: One pick up location
Post by: benson_murrensun on October 18, 2010, 10:53:39 AM

Shinichiro,
 
I once asked a similar question on this forum. I was thinking that a sweet spot would be under certain harmonic nodes of the strings' vibration. But I was reminded that every time you fret a string, the locations of the nodes change. So I am thinking that there is no simple answer to your question, as far as a formula for finding a sweet spot. I had a discussion with Jack Casady about how he found the preferred location for the single pickup on his Epiphone signature bass, and his answer was trial and error.

Title: One pick up location
Post by: shingor64 on October 18, 2010, 11:34:54 AM

Thanks for your comment, Ben.
 
As a customer, we cannot try so often to find the correct answer.
It seems Alembic makes many fine one pick up basses so far, and I guess they might know something theological.
The products are proof of it.
 
Since mine sounds great, I would go with 90% location but it has 30.75 inch scale.
Now that I'm ordering 33.25 bass, just wondering if other scale's basses (with one PU) are on the similar rule or not.
 
This is my point of view, but I would like to know other cases.
Jack's best position may differ to mine.  You're right.
 
Shinichiro

Title: One pick up location
Post by: mario_farufyno on October 18, 2010, 05:12:04 PM

There is an old topic here on the club where someone wrote a Link to a website with a Tool that showed how one PU would filter partials (harmonics). I remember you could also specify PU's number, placement and kind (humbucker or single) and it would shows how PUs interactions would comb filter incoming harmonics. I must find it again because it was so cool...
 
 
 
(Message edited by Mario Farufyno on October 18, 2010)

Title: One pick up location
Post by: David Houck on October 18, 2010, 06:43:19 PM

Mario, the discussion is here (http://alembic.com/club/messages/393/19319.html?1119689541#post40850), and the app is here (http://www.till.com/articles/PickupResponseDemo/).  It's probably useful to read the parts of the discussion that deal with the app before playing with the app.  I haven't reread the thread, but if I recall correctly, we talked about whether or not fretted notes made a difference, and it will certainly be observed when you fret notes in the app.  My recollection is that fretted notes did not make a difference, and I think there was a discussion as to why they didn't.  But it was a long time ago, and I really don't remember; and I haven't reread the thread.  The app is really cool to play with and does quite visually show the difference pickup placement makes.  And it shows how clean pickups near the bridge are, and how the signal gets dirtier the further away from the bridge you move.

Title: One pick up location
Post by: shingor64 on October 18, 2010, 06:47:34 PM

Thanks, Mario
 
Yes, I have read somewhere before and might find a website you describe a few years ago.
Honestly, I want some actual data from real Alembics.
 
After deep thinking, I'm planning like this.
Set fatboy fist at the 90% place of scale length, second lay rear side MXY side by side, then neck MXY put apart the same distance from another MXY as my 34inch Epic4.
The interval between two MXYs is 101mm (center to center).
I intend to take over two basses.
 
So, fatboy makes the datum point relatively affected by scale reduction, but MXYs interval not.
The results are the neck MXY at 82.5%, bridge MXY at 94.5% of the scale.
 
I'm sorry but the idea is not firm yet.
 
Shinichiro

Title: One pick up location
Post by: shingor64 on October 18, 2010, 06:50:37 PM

Thanks, David
 
Those are we're talking about.
I'll read again.

Title: One pick up location
Post by: David Houck on October 18, 2010, 07:29:18 PM

Rami has several Excels with single pickups and some with two pickups in different configurations.  Pics of his Excels are here (http://club.alembic.com/index.php?topic=9162) and here (http://club.alembic.com/Images/411/1436.html?1182181736).

Title: One pick up location
Post by: sonicus on October 18, 2010, 09:05:40 PM

I have 81-0325   .  A single pickup Export Distillate
(http://club.alembic.com/Images/393/87834.jpg)

(http://club.alembic.com/Images/393/87835.jpg)
       The sound is great , even with one pickup !  This is an old pic; a new brass plate was made @ Alembic since this pic was taken.

Title: One pick up location
Post by: mike1762 on October 19, 2010, 04:22:03 PM

I thought this thread was about a place to score with chicks...

Title: One pick up location
Post by: terryc on October 20, 2010, 08:25:30 AM

Nothing wrong with one pick up..Leo made a fortune with a one pick up bass and many bass players had great careers with that bass!

Title: One pick up location
Post by: dfung60 on October 21, 2010, 12:10:08 PM

Leo made *two* fortunes with one pickup basses - the Precision first, and the Stingray later!  It's interesting that he changed his mind about the optimum location along the way.
 
David Fung

Title: One pick up location
Post by: mario_farufyno on October 21, 2010, 01:55:26 PM

Thanks Dave!

Title: One pick up location
Post by: benson_murrensun on October 26, 2010, 09:27:53 AM

And then there are those basses that have pickups which can be moved. Didn't Alembic #1 have a pickup on rails? I had a Gibson bass that had a move-able pickup, too, it was called a Grabber. ?It?s full of flexibility so the artist can choose his own personal playing action as well as his personal sound with a patented sliding pickup.? ? Gibson catalog, circa 1975

Title: One pick up location
Post by: tmoney61092 on October 26, 2010, 10:10:28 AM

Alembic #1 did have pickups on rails. how would you describe the Grabber's sound? does moving the pickup actually change the sound that much? can you move them on the fly?
 
~Taylor

Title: One pick up location
Post by: tmoney61092 on October 26, 2010, 01:21:45 PM

wow, delayed double post...
 
~Taylor
 
(Message edited by tmoney61092 on October 26, 2010)

Title: One pick up location
Post by: benson_murrensun on October 28, 2010, 01:24:15 PM

OK, traveling backward through the fog of my CRS Syndrome and trying to remember my Gibson Grabber... I seem to remember that the pickup being moved did, indeed, make a noticeable change in the tone. I also seem to remember that the pickup did move on the fly (sometimes unintentionally!). As for the overall sound of the bass, I don't remember it well enough to describe it here, but suffice it to say that I sold it, so I guess the sound wasn't marvelous, at least to my ears.

Title: One pick up location
Post by: serialnumber12 on October 28, 2010, 01:42:08 PM

serial#999 has sliding pups too.(http://club.alembic.com/Images/393/88526.jpg)

Title: One pick up location
Post by: jazzyvee on October 28, 2010, 02:38:15 PM

I just love that bass and it's the only pointed body shape I like.  
 
Jazzyvee

Title: One pick up location
Post by: dfung60 on October 28, 2010, 11:07:48 PM

There's a couple of famous moving pickup basses.  The Gibson Grabber is probably the most prominent since it's been played by a number of famous players (Gene Simmons, Mike Dirnt).  The pickup on that one moves a little less than 6.  You can hear a difference, but it's not much.
 
There was a Dan Armstrong bass in the 70's that had a pickup that slid over a long range, basically from the neck to the bridge.  I've never seen one of these in person.
 
There was a Westone headless bass called The Rail which was sort of in the Steinberger groove, but in addition to not having a headstock, most of the body on the Rail wasn't there either.  The parts of the body closest and farthest from the neck were still there, but the middle was gone, replaced by a set of steel rails that also held the pickup.
 
Another notable moving pickup bass was closely related to Alembic.  After Rick Turner parted ways with Alembic he put out a line of Turner instruments in the early 80's.  This included one- and two-pickup guitars and basses, with an unusual lute-style body.  You know the guitar, because it's the famous instrument that Lindsey Buckingham plays, which is now known as the Model One (back then, it was just a Turner guitar since there weren't any other models, just like the original Series basses weren't called Series, because there wasn't anything else).  On these instruments, the neck pickup is mounted in a black ring that's positioned where the soundhole would be on an acoustic guitar.  The ring can rotate and it actually makes quite a difference in the tone.  There were only a handful of basses made in the original run (around 11), and I happen to have 3 of them.  They're really interesting instruments.
 
David Fung

Title: One pick up location
Post by: cozmik_cowboy on October 29, 2010, 06:42:24 AM

OK, David, can you guess we're going to say now?
 
Pictures, pictures, pictures!
 
Peter

Title: One pick up location
Post by: adriaan on October 29, 2010, 06:43:30 AM

Yes, but strictly no banging of beer bottles on tables, please.

Title: One pick up location
Post by: adriaan on October 29, 2010, 06:52:26 AM

Meanwhile, here's the Dan Armstrong London Bass (http://www.danarmstrong.org/londonbass.html target=_blank).
 
It's a pretty interesting site!
 
IIRC, the regular plexi instruments had sliding pickups as well, but sideways, so you could easily swap out different types of pickup.

Title: One pick up location
Post by: David Houck on October 29, 2010, 08:57:23 AM

The Armstrong site is indeed pretty interesting; thanks Adriaan!

Title: One pick up location
Post by: dfung60 on October 31, 2010, 11:20:13 PM

Sorry I haven't responded - I haven't got any good pictures of the Turner basses right now, and they're not very accessible, but will start digging in the vault (that actually means in the pile of cases) if I can find some time.  
 
David Fung

Title: One pick up location
Post by: mario_farufyno on November 02, 2010, 04:46:30 AM

http://www.westone.info/reviews/reviewrailbass.html

Title: One pick up location
Post by: mario_farufyno on November 02, 2010, 04:51:26 AM

On some tunes I prefer soloed neck PU tone. Seems to be the only way to get that kind of hollow sound P basses have...

Title: One pick up location
Post by: adriaan on November 02, 2010, 04:59:05 AM

Funny also that Westone had Dan Armstrong design a couple of instruments in the 1980s. Here's the Westone page (http://www.danarmstrong.org/westone.html target=_blank) at the site linked to above.

Title: One pick up location
Post by: edwin on November 03, 2010, 12:30:03 AM

A friend of mine back in Boston had one the Model 1 Turner basses. It was one of the really early ones. He got it for a song and it was his favorite bass. I loved the way it sounded and he got a lot of mileage out of the revolving pickup. I don't know if I have any pix, though.

Title: One pick up location
Post by: musashi on November 03, 2010, 02:46:12 PM

In the interest of posting in the right place, but related to the mention of a Rick Turner Model One bass I am posting a link to a live mp3 of a Rick Turner Model One in the Miscellaneous section.

Title: One pick up location
Post by: room037 on November 03, 2010, 09:09:32 PM

Hi, This is my Turner Model Two bass.
(http://club.alembic.com/Images/393/88845.jpg)
  And modified Model One fretless.
(http://club.alembic.com/Images/393/88846.jpg)
  Both basses are made 80's.  I also own 1 PU Distillate Bass. I feel Distillate bass sounds like Precision Bass than Model One. Model One PU location is just like neck PU of 2 PU basses, and rotation system is not so much variation of the sound. So I play my Model One as electric upright bass.  Eiji

Title: One pick up location
Post by: room037 on November 03, 2010, 09:38:19 PM

P.S.
Model Two has super variation of the sounds !
6 positions of PU selector are Each PUs, Both PUs serial and parallel (in phase, out of phase).
 
Eiji

Title: One pick up location
Post by: dfung60 on November 03, 2010, 11:29:40 PM

Eiji -  
 
Awesome shots of the Turners!  I really have to make a bigger effort to dig mine out.  One of mine is what is now called a Model Two (two pickup), another is a Model One and the third is a Model One which has had an EMG pickup added at the bridge.  The Model Two pickup selector is definitely interesting, although it makes more sense on the guitar than the bass (it's not often you'd want the out-of-phase sound).  
 
Eiji didn't mention the very unusual parametric EQ on these instruments.  When it's on, there's a sweepable notch filter with a very sharp peak.  When you turn the knobs, it's even more like a wah pedal than the Series bass EQ.
 
I have two of these 80's Turner guitars as well. One is a Model Two which is like the two pickup version of the Lindsay Buckingham guitar.  When you rotate the neck pickup sideways and tweak the EQ, it sounds like an amplified acoustic guitar.  The present-day Turner Ones can be outfitted with a piezo bridge, but these old ones don't have it.  These guitars are relatively plentiful compared to the basses - I remember reading that there were nearly 200 of these.
 
The other one I have is really odd and I don't believe was ever in regular production.  It's a double cutaway with the curved body and a pickguard (not as fancy as the Model One or Two), but the really odd thing about it is that it has 27 frets.  
 
David Fung

Title: One pick up location
Post by: musashi on November 04, 2010, 01:26:07 AM

Here are some moving pictures of the Rick Turner to which Eiji refers...
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SxTgrdAYiL0 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SxTgrdAYiL0)

Title: One pick up location
Post by: musashi on November 04, 2010, 04:34:58 AM

Hi David,
 
Here's an example of the out of phase setting-- I think it's useful on a bass... ;>)
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6u-tnRhAxV4 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6u-tnRhAxV4)

Title: One pick up location
Post by: mario_farufyno on November 04, 2010, 06:44:11 AM

Wow, furious slaping!

Title: One pick up location
Post by: musashi on November 09, 2010, 05:02:57 PM

Sorry wrong category.
 
(Message edited by musashi on November 09, 2010)

Title: One pick up location
Post by: musashi on December 04, 2010, 09:29:55 AM

Thanks, Mario.