Alembic Guitars Club

Connecting => Swap Shop and Wish Lists => Seen on craigslist, eBay, and elsewhere => Topic started by: kungfusheriff on April 20, 2009, 11:37:19 AM

Title: Alleged 1969 Alembic on eBay
Post by: kungfusheriff on April 20, 2009, 11:37:19 AM: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&item=310136981356

Any reactions, other than man, that bass could use a bath?
Title: Alleged 1969 Alembic on eBay
Post by: bsee on April 20, 2009, 12:40:52 PM: I think it looks really cool and might represent some pre-Alembic work. I will be interested to hear what Mica has to say as this could either be a laugher, or an oh my god I haven't seen that thing in almost 40 years moment.

-bob
Title: Alleged 1969 Alembic on eBay
Post by: mica on April 20, 2009, 12:48:05 PM: There are no 1969 Alembic basses. Number 1 is a 1972.

Some parts of this in passing look like Alembic parts, but then, upon closer inspection, they don't really: 3-pin instead of 5-pin, peghead shape (there IS a logo(not Alembic)), hacked up brass plate, trapezoid pickups (still don't look quite right to me).
There's just alot of things that make me think this is someone's personal project, and not necessarily someone related to or involved with us.

A picture of the electronics would be revealing, I can pretty much tell my father's handiwork.
Title: Alleged 1969 Alembic on eBay
Post by: serialnumber12 on April 20, 2009, 01:08:26 PM: (http://club.alembic.com/Images/395/64076.jpg)late 60's employee project???
Title: Alleged 1969 Alembic on eBay
Post by: jfiles on April 20, 2009, 01:28:24 PM: Talk about weird - I just had this in my shop in Austin, Texas recently. I had the control plate off of it to determine what it was. I had let the owner know that this was not an Alembic (he agreed and said that someone made it). There is no preamp in this bass - passive pickups vol/vol/tone/tone and two jacks wired in parallel (no lo-z transformer even). The neck was pitched at the wrong angle - the bridge is adjusted all the way down and the action is still way too high. I remember looking at the pots, but I don't remember the pot codes being from 1969, though. I don't think that the current seller is the same person that brought it into the store as he was local.
Title: Alleged 1969 Alembic on eBay
Post by: rodneyat on April 20, 2009, 02:08:13 PM: Read through the sellers feedback ratings..not exactly stellar or anything close to it.
Title: Alleged 1969 Alembic on eBay
Post by: zezozeceglutz on April 20, 2009, 02:27:59 PM: I love that the pickup wires just run right along the surface. Is that a (cabinet?) door hinge for a bridge?

At least the pickups are worth $0.35-0.55 each!
Title: Alleged 1969 Alembic on eBay
Post by: olieoliver on April 20, 2009, 02:37:35 PM: Had to look for myself Ken but you're dead on. Still laughing my butt off!

Cabinet hinge, on my my,
OO
Title: Alleged 1969 Alembic on eBay
Post by: lbpesq on April 20, 2009, 03:37:55 PM: Golly gee, I was all set to bid on this one until I noticed the tuners aren't original. Love the coins in the pickup castings. Probably makes it easier to change tone during a song! lol

Bill, tgo
Title: Alleged 1969 Alembic on eBay
Post by: dela217 on April 20, 2009, 04:31:26 PM: Could it be that it is some sort of Stars Guitars creation using Alembic pickups from the era? But then again, the stuff Stars was doing was waaayy better than that. The woodworking on that looks like it was done with a hot spoon.
Title: Alleged 1969 Alembic on eBay
Post by: jedisan on April 20, 2009, 05:52:25 PM: Hey John,

Thanks for posting up here with additional info on this instrument. Although I think most of us would have been cautious on this one, it's good to have info like you can provide. But I've got to say... the hinge for the string anchor was pure genius. Sometimes, you just gotta' go with what you have.
Title: Alleged 1969 Alembic on eBay
Post by: bsee on April 20, 2009, 06:53:39 PM: Sounds like Mica and the eBay police should be shutting this thing down shortly if it hasn't been killed already. Based upon her statement, it would seem this is clearly advertised inappropriately.
Title: Alleged 1969 Alembic on eBay
Post by: 57basstra on April 20, 2009, 07:36:36 PM: I have been bidding on this one and until a second or two ago I was high bidder.

I emailed the seller asking how he knew it was authentic Alembic and he replied:
Hello,
I am sure it is an Alembic. I did a lot of research and I showed it to several dealers this weekend at the Dallas guitar. The pot codes date it to 1969. This was at the very beginning of the Alembic company.
Thanks,
Rod

I actually kinda like the old bass. I do not plan to bid any more, however.
Title: Alleged 1969 Alembic on eBay
Post by: mica on April 20, 2009, 07:45:46 PM: I wrote to the seller to explain that while I didn't know who made the bass, I knew that it wasn't us. My dad said, no 3-pin outputs ever.
Title: Alleged 1969 Alembic on eBay
Post by: olieoliver on April 20, 2009, 08:28:51 PM: I was at the Dallas guitar show this passed weekend. I would've loved to run into this guy. I did see one Alembic, an Epic in fair to poor conditon priced at $1400.00.
Title: Alleged 1969 Alembic on eBay
Post by: rodsguitars on April 20, 2009, 09:15:47 PM: Hello Folks,
My name is Rod and I have the Alembic on ebay. I emailed Rick Turner and sent him photos of the bass. He said it was made by an Alembic employee for personal use, possibly Frank Fuller. In his email he states his is sure the bass was made by one of his employees. I hope this helps and if there are any questions I will do my best to answer them.
Thanks,
Rod
Title: Alleged 1969 Alembic on eBay
Post by: 57basstra on April 21, 2009, 03:38:16 AM: Hello, Rod. Welcome to the forum. I think the bass is an interesting one.
Title: Alleged 1969 Alembic on eBay
Post by: govegan on April 21, 2009, 04:54:54 AM: Hey Rod! Welcome to the club

Be that as it may, it is still not an alembic and it would be unfortunate for someone to purchase it thinking it was. You should edit your listing to be fair.

Have a good day!
Title: Alleged 1969 Alembic on eBay
Post by: bsee on April 21, 2009, 08:20:32 AM: Aaron, it isn't about fair. It's more about things like honest and legal. If Mica and Ron say that this bass was not made by Alembic, then it is not an Alembic. Rod clearly knows this now, having read this thread and, most likely, received Mica's email. Continuing to call this an Alembic bass is fraud at best and failure to alter the listing will most likely result in it being deleted. Mica always tries to be nice when the Alembic name is used by someone who has been misinformed, but it shouldn't be allowed to stand if they attempt to continue once properly educated on the matter.

Even if Rick Turner is correct in his assessment, the best Rod can do is to say it may have been, or even probably was made by a future Alembic employee in the years before Alembic began producing instruments. If Frank Fuller is still out there reachable somewhere and can be contacted to confirm Turner's story, then you could say that it was made by him rather than may have been. You could even say that Rick Turner, who was an Alembic employee in the early years, is sure that it was made by one of the other Alembic employees of the day. Anything beyond that is pure conjecture, and actually calling the bass an Alembic is offensive and dishonest, at least to me. Even if it were made by an Alembic employee in the Alembic shop, it still wouldn't be an Alembic.

Rod, It's a very interesting bass. I hope you alter the listing, or restart it altogether, with a more accurate description.

-bob
Title: Alleged 1969 Alembic on eBay
Post by: longhorncat on April 21, 2009, 08:54:34 AM: The seller ended this listing early
Title: Alleged 1969 Alembic on eBay
Post by: rodsguitars on April 21, 2009, 09:19:09 AM: Hello Folks,
I did end the auction. I'll put it up again when I find out exactly what it is. It's not my intention to deceive or defraud anybody. The bass was made 35 or 40 years and and at the very least is interesting because it could probably be the first Alembic copy ever made. Rick was very helpful and although he first thought it was an employee model he now feels it made by someone else. He did mention that certain parts on the bass are Alembic. I find it interesting that someone would make an Alembic copy all those years ago. I wonder where they would have seen a real one and be inspired to make a copy. Also, I've been buying and selling vintage instruments for many years and other employee guitars are collectable and bring as much or somtimes more than standard production models. Martin employee guitars are highly sought after and are very collectable and are considered to be Martins. The feeling is that an employee making their own guitars will put the very best effort in making an instrument for personal use.
Rod
Title: Alleged 1969 Alembic on eBay
Post by: keith_h on April 21, 2009, 09:30:57 AM: Rod,
Not sure if you will see this or not.

It is not uncommon to find instruments built by other folks that contain Alembic parts. There were several other well known luthiers that were known to have purchased electronics and bridges from Alembic back in that era. Likewise you can still purchase some of these items from Alembic today to place in your instruments.

Keith
Title: Alleged 1969 Alembic on eBay
Post by: 57basstra on April 21, 2009, 09:35:35 AM: Thanks Rod.
Looks like you are in Memphis. I am up North from you just a ways. I plan to keep track of your items for sale and I could be a potential buyer for the bass we are all talking about.
Good to have you with us!
Title: Alleged 1969 Alembic on eBay
Post by: jfiles on April 21, 2009, 09:42:27 AM: Hi Rod,

I would recommend taking some pictures with the bottom of the control plate exposed to show the cavity and the components. When I inspected this bass recently, the only parts that I saw that were Alembic were the pots and there was no preamp - all passive. To my memory (be aware - I am 51 years old) everything else was either fabricated or off the shelf. My guess is that sometime in the '70s someone built a copy and got some NOS pots from Alembic. It would be nice to find Frank Fuller and get more information. This would not only clear things up, but might bring more value to this bass as well.

John
Title: Alleged 1969 Alembic on eBay
Post by: bsee on April 21, 2009, 06:50:05 PM: It's all good, Rod. Glad you're dealing with this in a professional manner. There's no doubt it is an interesting instrument no matter who built it, and the true story, once learned, could add value.

I also agree that employee guitars can be as good or better than factory release products from some companies. They still can't be advertised as a product of the company, but can be a great bargain if accurately described. That said, I believe Alembic craftspeople put forth their best effort on every instrument they touch and you're less likely to find an employee guitar that would exceed Alembic branded instruments.

-bob
Title: Alleged 1969 Alembic on eBay
Post by: rodsguitars on April 23, 2009, 05:20:55 PM: Hello Folks,
I did talk with Frank and he's not sure what's up with the bass. He thinks it's possible an employee made it or someone close to the shop doing their own interpretation. I sent a bunch of photos of the electronics to Mica. I haven't heard back from her. Hopefully, she'll be able to shed some light on it. The thing that I like most about this bass is that someone really played it. It has spent a lot of time in bars. As crude as some aspects are, it is still a really good bass and someone got a lot of use out of it.
Thanks,
Rod
Title: Alleged 1969 Alembic on eBay
Post by: lbpesq on April 23, 2009, 06:24:58 PM: o.k. Is there something I'm missing? As I understand it the following are the relevant facts:

1. This is a 1969 instrument

2. Alembic made their first instrument in 1972.

So how can it possibly be an employee project unless it was built by one helluva psychic employee?

Bill, tgo
Title: Alleged 1969 Alembic on eBay
Post by: longhorncat on April 23, 2009, 06:43:10 PM: Rod's new auction has corrected all the mistakes we pointed out.
He was just cool enough not to post the new link.
Since I am bidding, I won't either ;)

.
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link (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&item=310137619804)

(Message edited by longhorncat on April 24, 2009)
Title: Alleged 1969 Alembic on eBay
Post by: southpaw on April 23, 2009, 06:47:11 PM: Well, if the bridge is lowered all the way down and the action is still high... then I know the bridge is a real Alembic part!! (inside joke).
Title: Alleged 1969 Alembic on eBay
Post by: rodsguitars on April 23, 2009, 08:19:41 PM: I dated the bass as 1969 from the pot codes. I have since found out that many later Alembics have 69 pots so that is not an accurate way to date it. I took a lot of photos of the inside of the control cavitiy, pickups, really quite a few shots. It anbody wants to see them I'll be glad to post them. I found this number under the bridge bass, Al-D903. Do that mean anything to anybody?
Thanks,
Rod
Title: Alleged 1969 Alembic on eBay
Post by: rodsguitars on April 23, 2009, 08:29:55 PM: I dated the bass as 1969 from the pot codes. I have since found out that many later Alembics have 69 pots so that is not an accurate way to date it. I took a lot of photos of the inside of the control cavitiy, pickups, really quite a few shots. It anbody wants to see them I'll be glad to post them. I found this number under the bridge bass, Al-D903. Do that mean anything to anybody?
Thanks,
Rod
Title: Alleged 1969 Alembic on eBay
Post by: elwoodblue on April 23, 2009, 11:28:00 PM: I'd love to see some more pics when you get a chance to post them. Is that some sort of sustain block under the bridge?
thanks
Title: Alleged 1969 Alembic on eBay
Post by: attmann on April 24, 2009, 04:01:13 AM: Hey Rod,
I hope you don't forget about sending out the missing tele knob screw while you are so busy with of your research here...
Title: Alleged 1969 Alembic on eBay
Post by: rodsguitars on April 24, 2009, 08:50:28 AM: Hello,
Here's a photo of the controls. It is a sustain block under the bridge.
Thanks,
Rod
Title: Alleged 1969 Alembic on eBay
Post by: 57basstra on April 24, 2009, 09:37:28 AM: Rod I have looked for the guitar on Ebay and not found it. How about a link?
Title: Alleged 1969 Alembic on eBay
Post by: olieoliver on April 24, 2009, 09:45:03 AM: Here it is (http://cgi.ebay.com/1972-Handmade-Bass-Super-Cool_W0QQitemZ310137619804QQcmdZViewItemQQptZGuitar?hash=item310137619804&_trksid=p3911.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1205%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A12%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318%7C301%3A0%7C293%3A2%7C294%3A50)

OO
Title: Alleged 1969 Alembic on eBay
Post by: altgrendel on April 24, 2009, 09:58:20 AM: Please post the internal pics. Love to see them.
Title: Alleged 1969 Alembic on eBay
Post by: 57basstra on April 24, 2009, 10:29:27 AM: thanks, Olie
Title: Alleged 1969 Alembic on eBay
Post by: rodsguitars on April 24, 2009, 10:57:35 AM
Title: Alleged 1969 Alembic on eBay
Post by: lbpesq on April 24, 2009, 12:43:52 PM: Rod:

I just want to acknowledge the thoughtfulness and integrity evidenced by your new ebay description. We've seen similar issues like this around here before, and it is the rare seller who responds so appropriately. Good luck on selling your bass. Whatever its origin, it is a very cool and interesting looking instrument. If only it had thinner strings, and two more of them, I'd probably be in the running. But, alas, I am:

Bill, the guitar one
Title: Alleged 1969 Alembic on eBay
Post by: bsee on April 24, 2009, 01:52:00 PM: Agreed, Bill. Thanks, Rod!
Title: Alleged 1969 Alembic on eBay
Post by: rodsguitars on April 25, 2009, 05:48:33 PM: Hello Folks,
Thanks for the kind words. I'm trying to post photos of the controls but I haven't had any luck. I'll give it another shot tomorrow.
Rod
Title: Alleged 1969 Alembic on eBay
Post by: David Houck on April 25, 2009, 06:01:59 PM: If you want, you can email the pics to me and I'll post them for you.
Title: Alleged 1969 Alembic on eBay
Post by: rodsguitars on April 25, 2009, 07:27:36 PM: Hello Dave,
That would be great. Please send your email address and I'll send them right now.
Rod
Title: Alleged 1969 Alembic on eBay
Post by: dadabass2001 on April 25, 2009, 07:59:07 PM: Hello Rod,
Dave's email is available by clicking on his name, (as is yours, and mine).

Mike
Title: Alleged 1969 Alembic on eBay
Post by: rodsguitars on April 25, 2009, 08:04:28 PM: Hello Mike,
I figured it out. I'm at best, semi literate on computers. Actually, I'm pretty much semi literate about everything.
Thanks,
Rod
Title: Alleged 1969 Alembic on eBay
Post by: dadabass2001 on April 25, 2009, 08:10:23 PM: No problem, and welcome to the club.

Mike
Title: Alleged 1969 Alembic on eBay
Post by: David Houck on April 26, 2009, 06:16:11 AM: Here are Rod's pics.
(http://club.alembic.com/Images/395/64405.jpg)

(http://club.alembic.com/Images/395/64406.jpg)

(http://club.alembic.com/Images/395/64407.jpg)

(http://club.alembic.com/Images/395/64408.jpg)

(http://club.alembic.com/Images/395/64409.jpg)

(http://club.alembic.com/Images/395/64410.jpg)

(http://club.alembic.com/Images/395/64411.jpg)

(http://club.alembic.com/Images/395/64412.jpg)

(http://club.alembic.com/Images/395/64413.jpg)

(http://club.alembic.com/Images/395/64414.jpg)

(http://club.alembic.com/Images/395/64415.jpg)

(http://club.alembic.com/Images/395/64416.jpg)

(http://club.alembic.com/Images/395/64417.jpg)
Title: Alleged 1969 Alembic on eBay
Post by: 57basstra on April 26, 2009, 12:33:34 PM: The story on this bass gets more interesting all the time.
Title: Alleged 1969 Alembic on eBay
Post by: elwoodblue on April 26, 2009, 01:07:42 PM: Thanks Rod for the time spent taking the detailed pics...and thanks Dave for posting them.
The headstock has a sort of Oasis vibe to it.
Title: Alleged 1969 Alembic on eBay
Post by: altgrendel on April 26, 2009, 05:18:52 PM: Looking at the head stock, some of that grain looks like it could be red oak.

And I asked, it's a short scale bass.

(Message edited by altgrendel on April 26, 2009)
Title: Alleged 1969 Alembic on eBay
Post by: bracheen on April 26, 2009, 05:27:22 PM: Hey Rod, nice to meet you. I just stumbled on this thread tonight. I have to commend you for stepping up and setting things right so quickly. As Bill mentioned there have been others who've just gotten pissed and didn't fix anything.
About the bass all I can say is wow. I want to buy it just because its so weird. I'd sure hate to try and set the intonation though.
Good luck with this auction and your others as well

Sam
Title: Alleged 1969 Alembic on eBay
Post by: rodsguitars on April 26, 2009, 05:50:06 PM: Hello Sam,
Good to meet you as well. It is such a weird bass. I can't believe the time and energy that went into some details of this bass and the lack of time and energy that went into other aspects. Why someone would not take the time to run the pickup wires under the controls is beyond me. My first thought was that it was built as an experimental model and that the pickups would be changed alot so why bother. I took to it my band practice today but our bass player didn't deem to play it. He probably thought he would catch something if he touched it! It's been great hearing all the different points of view.
Thanks,
Rod
Title: Alleged 1969 Alembic on eBay
Post by: artswork99 on April 26, 2009, 06:39:08 PM: Rod,
Quite an interesting bass from the past. Thanks for sharing all that you have on this instrument and welcome to the forum.
Art
Title: Alleged 1969 Alembic on eBay
Post by: longhorncat on April 27, 2009, 06:26:09 AM: The auction has been canceled.
Oh well.
Title: Alleged 1969 Alembic on eBay
Post by: effclef on April 27, 2009, 06:52:53 AM: That's too bad. Rod has 10,000+ feedback and I wonder why he pulled it again.

EffClef
Title: Alleged 1969 Alembic on eBay
Post by: effclef on April 27, 2009, 06:53:04 AM: That's too bad. Rod has 10,000+ feedback and I wonder why he pulled it again.

EffClef
Title: Alleged 1969 Alembic on eBay
Post by: rodsguitars on April 27, 2009, 06:55:40 AM: Hello,
I decided to end the auction and hold on to it for a while. I've become quite attached to it since I've got it.
Thanks,
Rod
Title: Alleged 1969 Alembic on eBay
Post by: altgrendel on April 27, 2009, 07:02:24 AM: I honestly don't blame you one bit, Rod.

Enjoy it.
Title: Alleged 1969 Alembic on eBay
Post by: effclef on April 27, 2009, 07:09:22 AM: Whoops, sorry for the double post!

Thanks, Rod - I am glad you didn't take someone's buy-it-now offer or something, that's a real bummer on Ebay when someone pulls the rug out.

It is a VERY interesting bass, despite the construction weirdness. I'd sure love to know the history. Homemade bits and pieces, sweaty barroom corrosion, many similarities to Alembics which came later - it would be an interesting story to know what this started our as, and how it may have changed over the years.

Please keep in touch in the Club! We love mysteries.

EffClef
Title: Alleged 1969 Alembic on eBay
Post by: paulman on April 28, 2009, 11:37:15 AM: The tailpiece looks centered and even. I was hingeing on making